In this episode, I chat with a personal hero of mine—Matt Warshaw, author of The Encyclopedia of Surfing and History of Surfing—about growing up alongside Jay Adams, why he’s a reluctant podcast guest, and why surfing was never really fun for him, but always addictive, strategic, and soul-consuming. We also get into the overlooked role women played in board design, the radical act of smiling in the lineup, and how EOS came together on a prayer and a pile of favors. Plus, the moment Matt decided to quit surfing altogether.